: [POST-BROADCAST CORRECTION November 1, 2025: In this story, we misidentified the year of the Peter Boyle interview. It was recorded and broadcast in 1995.]
DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Bianculli. In 1974, Mel Brooks directed and co-wrote one of the greatest film genre parodies in movie history - actually, two of them. "Blazing Saddles," his Western parody, came out in February of that year. And in December, "Young Frankenstein" premiered, brilliantly lampooning and celebrating horror movies in general and James Whale's 1930s Frankenstein movies in particular. Because until December, it's still technically the 50th anniversary year of that monster movie comedy. And because today is Halloween, we decided it would be a Halloween treat to devote today's show to "Young Frankenstein."
Before that film, writer-director Mel Brooks already had cast Gene Wilder in two of his best comedies, "The Producers" and "Blazing Saddles." While filming that latter movie with Brooks, Gene Wilder started sketching out an idea for a movie of his own. It was a comic version of "Frankenstein" and "The Bride Of Frankenstein," conceived to have him play the starring role as the grandson of mad scientist Victor Frankenstein. Wilder asked Brooks to co-write and direct it, and they began work on it immediately. "Young Frankenstein" was shot in black and white, and Brooks was so faithful to the pace and look of Whale's original films, he even tracked down and used the original lab equipment from the Frankenstein movies. He also assembled an astounding cast in support of Gene Wilder. Two previous Oscar winners, Cloris Leachman and Gene Hackman, eagerly accepted minor roles. And also in the cast were Peter Boyle, Madeline Kahn, Teri Garr and Marty Feldman.
In an early scene, Wilder, as the scientist's grandson, is met at the Transylvania train station by his future lab assistant, played by Feldman.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN")
MARTY FELDMAN: (As Igor) Dr. Frankenstine (ph).
GENE WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) Frankenstein.
FELDMAN: (As Igor) You're putting me on.
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) No. It's pronounced Frankenstein.
FELDMAN: (As Igor) Do you also say Froderick (ph)?
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) No. Frederick.
FELDMAN: (As Igor) Well, why isn't it Froderick Fronkenstein (ph)?
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) It isn't. It's Frederick Frankenstein.
FELDMAN: (As Igor) I see.
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) You must be Egor (ph).
FELDMAN: (As Igor) No. It's pronounced Igor.
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) But they told me it was Egor.
FELDMAN: (As Igor) Well, they were wrong then, weren't they?
BIANCULLI: On today's show, we'll listen to archive interviews featuring Gene Wilder, Teri Garr, Cloris Leachman, Peter Boyle and Mel Brooks himself. We'll start with Gene Wilder, who spoke with Terry Gross in 2005. He recalled how he and Mel began collaborating on "Young Frankenstein."
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
WILDER: I was writing every day, and then Mel would come to the house and read what I'd written. And then he'd say, yeah, yeah, yeah, OK. Yeah, OK. But we need a villain, or we need - whatever it was. And we'd talk a little bit, and then he'd go away. And I would write all the next day, and he'd come and look at it. And then one day, when he read the pages I had written about Dr. Frankenstein and the creature sing and dance to "Puttin' On The Ritz," he said, are you crazy? This is frivolous. You're just being frivolous. Well, my temperature rose, and after 20 minutes or so of arguing, my color got from - went from red to, I think, blue or purple. I started screaming. And then all of a sudden, he said, OK, it's in. And I said, well, why did you put me through this? And he said, I wasn't sure if it was right. And I thought, if you didn't argue for it, then it was wrong. And if you did, it was right. So you convinced me.
TERRY GROSS: Well, this is such a classic scene. I mean, you, as Dr. Frankenstein, are presenting in a theater your creation, you know, the Frankenstein...
WILDER: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Monster, played by Peter Boyle. And you're in - both in top hat and tails, and you introduce him. Then you sing a duet of "Puttin' On The Ritz" and, you know, do a little soft-shoe, and it's really such a wonderful scene. So how did you come up with a way to - with an excuse to do it, you know, with the plot point to get in the production number?
WILDER: Because we had to convince the scientific members of Transylvania that with the procedure I was using on the creature, he could be taught to be a civilized human being, what I called a man-about-town. And I was - it was for their sake that I was doing it. And I just thought of the funniest way of doing it, that's all. But instead of a monster who's going to kill their children, it was someone who could sing and dance.
GROSS: Well, I think we have no choice here but to listen (laughter) to you and Peter Boyle doing "Puttin' On The Ritz" from the soundtrack of "Young Frankenstein."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN")
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) Ladies and gentlemen, up until now, you've seen the creature perform the simple mechanics of motor activity. But for what you are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius.
(OOHING)
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) Ladies and gentlemen, mesdames and messieurs, damen und herren, from what was once an inarticulate mass of lifeless tissues, may I now present a cultured, sophisticated man-about-town. Hit it.
(Singing) If you're blue and you don't know where to go to, why don't you go where fashion sits?
PETER BOYLE: (As the Monster, singing) Putting on the Ritz.
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein, singing) Different types who wear a day coat, pants with stripes or cutaway coat. Perfect fits.
BOYLE: (As the Monster, singing) Putting on the Ritz.
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein, singing) Dressed up like a million-dollar trooper, trying mighty hard to look like Gary Cooper.
BOYLE: (As the Monster, singing) Super-duper.
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein, singing) Come, let's mix where Rockefellers walk with sticks or umbrellas in their mitts.
BOYLE: (As the Monster, singing) Putting on the Ritz.
GROSS: Gene Wilder, you came up with the premise for "Young Frankenstein." You officially share credits with - Mel Brooks shares credit with you for the screenplay and the screen story. What gave you the idea of writing "Young Frankenstein"? Did you love the "Frankenstein" movie?
WILDER: Well, at the time, I didn't know why. But I know now that when I was a little boy, I was scared to death of the "Frankenstein" film - films, actually, 'cause there were four of them in particular that influenced me. And in all these years later, I wanted it to come out with a happy ending. And I think it was my fear of the "Frankenstein" movies when I was 8 and 9 and 10 years old that made me want to write that story that I was a young doctor or dental hygienist and found out that my great-grandfather, Beaufort von Frankenstein, left me the whole estate. That was all I had in mind at the time. And then my agent at the time, Mike Medavoy, before he became a movie mogul, called me up and said, how about a movie with you and Peter Boyle and Marty Feldman? And I said, well, what makes you think of that? He said because I now handle you and Peter and Marty.
GROSS: (Laughter).
WILDER: And I said, well, as it happens, I do have something. Well, send it to me right now. I said, no, I want to work on it a little bit. And that night I wrote two more pages - the Transylvania station scene almost verbatim the way it is in the film - and then I sent it off to him. And he said, I think I can sell this, and maybe we can get Mel to direct. And I said, I don't think he's going to direct something he didn't conceive of.
And Mel - you have to understand this important point - he had done "The Producers" for $50,000 over two years, and he didn't make a penny from it. And then he did "The Twelve Chairs" - $50,000 for two more years and didn't make a penny from it. That's four years of work. And then they offered him quite a bit of money to direct "Young Frankenstein," and he took it. He called me first. He said, what are you getting me into? I said, nothing you don't want to get into. He said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The next day, I've got a call saying Mel's going to do it.
GROSS: There's quite a few really classic jokes in "Young Frankenstein." One of them - and this seems like it's probably the oldest joke in the world, and I'm not sure...
WILDER: Oh, dear...
GROSS: I think you know the one, the walk this way joke.
WILDER: Now (laughter)...
GROSS: Why don't you describe how it happens in the movie? And tell me if it's something that you and Brooks came up with or whether this joke has a long previous life 'cause it seems like - I don't actually - I don't know I ever heard it before the movie, but it seems like it should have been around forever, do you know what I mean?
WILDER: I had never heard of it before. And while we were filming outdoors on location, Mel says to Marty Feldman, Marty...
GROSS: Who's playing the doctor's assistant...
WILDER: Yeah, Igor.
GROSS: Your assistant, yeah.
WILDER: Or Igor - he says, bend over and say to Gene, walk this way, and then crouch down and walk away. And I said, Mel, what does that mean? He says I'll tell you later. I'll tell you later. Just do it for now. So I took the cane and I followed Marty after the camera started rolling. And I walked this funny walk, and everyone laughed afterwards. And I said, now will you tell me what it means?
He says, a man who has a terrible case of hemorrhoids, he goes into a drug store and he says, have you got some talcum powder for me? I've got terrible hemorrhoids. And the pharmacist says, walk this way. He says, if I could walk that way, I wouldn't need the talcum powder.
GROSS: (Laughter).
WILDER: I said, where did that come from? He says it's an old vaudeville routine. It's years old. But I had never heard of it before, but it worked.
GROSS: And another - another old, classic one, when you get to the castle...
WILDER: Now, don't (laughter)...
GROSS: What? (Laughter) there's these large...
WILDER: Yeah, door...
GROSS: Large, like, brass-door knockers...
WILDER: With knobs.
GROSS: ...With knobs on them. And as as you're approaching the door, you lift...
WILDER: Teri Garr.
GROSS: Yeah, that's right. You lift Teri Garr out of the wagon that you've...
WILDER: Yes.
GROSS: ...Arrived in. And your head is kind of buried in her chest as...
WILDER: Yes.
GROSS: ...Igor knocks on the door. And you say...
WILDER: No.
GROSS: No, you tell it. You tell it.
WILDER: I say - well, he knocks on the door. And just when Teri's breast is brushed up against my face, I look and see the knockers. And I say, what knockers. And she says (imitating foreign accent) thank you, Doctor.
GROSS: (Laughter) Now, how'd you guys come up with that one? It also sounds like this is a classic, yeah.
WILDER: No, that's Mel. That's Mel. That wasn't written. He just said when you lift her off the wagon like that, look at the knockers and say, what knockers. Well, I thought it was very funny at the time. But that wasn't written. That was just improvised - it wasn't improvised. He just said say, what knockers, and it worked.
(SOUNDBITE OF CLANGING)
WILDER: (As Frederick Frankenstein) What knockers.
TERI GARR: (As Inga) Oh, thank you, Doctor.
GROSS: Now, I'm thinking you and Mel Brooks, you're both Jewish. But you're from very different parts of the United States and probably had different experiences growing up 'cause he's...
WILDER: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Very East Coast, very New York, very Borscht Belt, and you grew - was it Milwaukee?
WILDER: Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
GROSS: Yeah. So, I mean, didn't have the Borscht Belt.
WILDER: No, no, no.
GROSS: Probably didn't know vaudeville as well as he did.
WILDER: No. Don't say as well, I didn't know it at all. I'd read about a few things, but that's all.
GROSS: So what were some of the points of commonality and difference between the two of you and your sense of theater and show biz?
WILDER: Well, when I was still in school and I saw "Your Show Of Shows," which was my favorite television show with Sid Caesar, Mel Brooks was one of the writers. At first, he started out as low man on the totem pole until he advanced to head writer.
But I had a feeling for what he had written. I wasn't sure if I was right. And then when I met him, there was a closeness because I loved that kind of humor, his kind of humor. It wasn't any part of my life, in my humor, but I just appreciated it. There was an affinity there somewhere. And in so many ways, we're not at all alike, and in some ways, we're very much alike.
When people, especially from France, would ask me to talk about or so they could write about New York Jewish humor, I'd say, I don't know anything about New York Jewish humor. I know who Zero Mostel was, and I know Mel Brooks, but that's about all I could tell you about New York Jewish humor. And I certainly didn't have New York Jewish humor. But I was in three Mel Brooks films so people thought I was a connoisseur of New York Jewish humor.
My humor is - was quite different. Mine was "Sherlock Holmes' Smarter Brother" and "The World's Greatest Lover" and "Haunted Honeymoon," "The Woman In Red," things - "See No Evil, Hear No Evil." But his was much broader and, I think, much funnier, too.
BIANCULLI: Gene Wilder speaking with Terry Gross in 2005. He died in 2016. After a break, another "Young Frankenstein" star and standout, Teri Garr as the doctor's very smitten and sexy lab assistant. This is FRESH AIR.
This is FRESH AIR. Next up in our "Young Frankenstein" appreciation is Teri Garr, who was nominated for an Oscar for her supporting actress work in "Tootsie." Earlier in her career, she had danced in nine Elvis Presley movies and made her acting screen debut opposite Gene Hackman in "The Conversation." In "Young Frankenstein," she played Inga, the assistant and girlfriend to Gene Wilder's mad scientist. In this scene from "Young Frankenstein," the doctor's fiancee, Elizabeth, has been escorted to the castle by his assistant, Igor, where she meets the doctor's other lab assistant, the beautiful Inga. Madeline Kahn plays Elizabeth, Marty Feldman plays Igor and Teri Garr plays Inga.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN")
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) I'd like you to meet my assistants, Inga and Igor.
MADELINE KAHN: (As Elizabeth Lavenza) How do you do? How do you do?
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) And this is my financier, Elizabeth.
GARR: (As Inga) Oh, I'm so happy to meet you at last.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) My financee.
KAHN: (As Elizabeth Lavenza) Excuse me, darling, what is it exactly that you do do?
GARR: (As Inga) Well, I assist Dr. Frankenstein in the laboratory. We have intellectual discussions and we - as a matter of fact, we were just having one as you were driving.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein, vocalizing).
GARR: (As Inga) What?
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein, vocalizing).
KAHN: (As Elizabeth Lavenza) What?
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) Igor, would you give me a hand with the bags?
FELDMAN: (As Igor) Certainly. You take the blonde, and I'll take the one in the turban.
KAHN: (As Elizabeth Lavenza) Oh.
FELDMAN: (As Igor, vocalizing).
KAHN: (As Elizabeth Lavenza, vocalizing).
BIANCULLI: Terry Gross spoke with Teri Garr in 2005.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: Well, let me ask you about another movie you were in, and that is "Young Frankenstein" - or Frankenshteen (ph).
GARR: Fronkenshtein (ph), yeah.
GROSS: Yes, directed by Mel Brooks. How did you get to work with him?
GARR: Well, there was rumors going around town that there was a big movie being cast, and there was lots of girls going up for this audition, and I got my agent to get me in on it. You know, 500 girls. When I went there, Mel Brooks said, we're casting for the part of the fiance - the financier, he called it - and - but I want Madeline Kahn to do it. I just want you to know. But she doesn't want to do it 'cause she doesn't want to do a comedy, but I'm auditioning all these girls. So I went in and I got a callback and callback, and I was very excited that I even got called back. Finally, one day, I got called back, and he said Madeline has decided to do this part. But if you can come back tomorrow, I'll give you a chance to audition for the part of Inga, the lab assistant, but you have to have a German accent. Can you come - and it's like, I had 24 hours to get a German accent together. And I did 'cause I copied Cher's wig maker, who had a German accent.
GROSS: You were working on "The Sonny & Cher Show" at the time.
GARR: (Impersonating German accent) Yes, I also working on "The Sonny & Cher Show" at the time, and there was Renate with the wigs.
GROSS: Did you learn things about comic timing working with Mel Brooks on "Young Frankenstein?"
GARR: Well, I don't think you can learn comic timing. I think I must have innately grown up with, you know, my mother and father from Vaudeville and stuff and lots of jokes around the house. But I had been working on "Sonny & Cher Show" as a dancer and also in these horrible comedy sketches. And I sort of had learned comic timing then. Also, I was an incredible fan of Mel Brooks' "The 2000 Year Old Man." I had listened to those records hundreds of times as a kid and memorized them and did them over and over again. So I sort of knew his rhythm. But he is one of God's gifts to this planet. Mel Brooks is just the funniest man in the world. He is really funny.
GROSS: What did he call you? A shiksa goddess?
GARR: Shiksa goddess. My long-waisted shiksa goddess. No, and then he called Peter Boyle and I - come here, treif. We were both treif. I don't know what it means, exactly. And then at one point...
GROSS: Not kosher.
GARR: ...I said, Well, Mel, you're so wonderful. I wish I was Jewish. You're Jewish. You are Jewish by injection. I don't know what he meant, but OK.
GROSS: (Laughter) Can we talk about your parents a little bit?
GARR: Please.
GROSS: Your mother, as you mentioned, was a Rockette She was - you say she had wonderful legs. She did - what? - hosiery ads, too?
GARR: She did, yes.
GROSS: She showed off her legs?
GARR: Yeah, she called herself Legs Lind (ph).
GROSS: And then she also was, like, a wardrobe person for several TV shows?
GARR: Yeah. I think a lot of dancers become - go into wardrobe afterwards. I don't know why that happens, but it's true. And she became a costumer in LA. And my father died when I was 11, and he was in Vaudeville, and they met in a Broadway show, my parents. And then he came out to Hollywood to be in movies, and that didn't pan out, and he became very ill, and he passed away. So my mother had to support three kids, you know, by her wits. So she went and got a job in the studios as a costumer. In fact, she was a costumer on "Young Frankenstein" before I even got the job. And she told - don't tell anyone I'm your mother. I said, what is this about? So weird. Anyway, I learned...
GROSS: Why didn't you want anyone to know?
GARR: I do not know to this day. Maybe...
GROSS: Was it for her sake or your sake?
GARR: I don't know. But finally, I told Mel. I said, you know that lady over there? That's my mom. He was so great 'cause he's just a great guy, and - well, bring her over here. You know, he was wonderful.
BIANCULLI: Teri Garr speaking to Terry Gross in 2005. Teri Garr died last year. After a break, we'll hear from three more "Young Frankenstein" alumni - Peter Boyle, Cloris Leachman and Mel Brooks. And Justin Chang reviews the new film "Bugonia." I'm David Bianculli, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOHN MORRIS' "THEME FROM 'YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN'")
BIANCULLI: This is FRESH AIR. I'm TV critic David Bianculli. On today's Halloween show, we're saluting "Young Frankenstein," the Mel Brooks, Gene Wilder monster movie comedy that is celebrating its golden anniversary. Next up is Peter Boyle. Today, Boyle is best known for his comedy work on television as Ray's grumbling father on the long-running sitcom "Everybody Loves Raymond." But by the time he agreed to play the creature in "Young Frankenstein," Boyle was a dramatic character actor with roles in "Taxi Driver," "The Candidate" and "Joe." Terry Gross spoke with Peter Boyle in 1988.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: How did you get the part of the monster?
BOYLE: Gee, I forget how I got it. I knew Gene Wilder and Marty Feldman, and I knew Mel. And there was a conversation. And they wanted to do, you know, a spoof on "Frankenstein." And it was decided, you know, I was best for the monster. Marty was best for Igor and blah, blah, blah, like that. And Gene Wilder, you know, wrote the original script, and then he and Mel rewrote it, and it became a movie. It just happened.
GROSS: So did you go back and watch the original, study Boris Karloff?
BOYLE: I didn't have to because I had seen the original when I was about 12 years old, in the era before television where there was a movie in downtown Philadelphia that used to show old movies. And a friend of mine went down, and I went down to see the original "Frankenstein." And it scared me. And it made such a strong impression on me that I really didn't have to go back and do research because I patterned my performance on Karloff and made - you know, and did it a certain way. And I wanted to make it like there was somebody inside the monster.
GROSS: Did you remember the monster's grunts, which, of course, you had to do?
BOYLE: (Grunting).
GROSS: (Laughter).
BOYLE: Yes, of course. Yes.
GROSS: The makeup is actually very funny for the film because you could see where the makeup is.
BOYLE: Well, you know, "Young Frankenstein" really sort of spoofed the early "Frankenstein" movies, which were actually the first among the first sound movies ever made. They were made in 1931. And the lighting and the makeup was very much in the style of the silent movies. It hadn't gotten that sophisticated. So some of the makeup, you were aware that it was makeup. That was somewhat intentional.
GROSS: One of the highlights, I think, of "Young Frankenstein" is when Gene Wilder, who plays Dr. Frankenstein, the scientist, is showing off you, his monster, his creation...
BOYLE: Yeah.
GROSS: ...To a big audience of scientists.
BOYLE: Yes.
GROSS: And then as he's showing you off, you do a duet with him of "Puttin' On The Ritz."
BOYLE: Yes.
GROSS: In full top hat, white tie and tails.
BOYLE: You know, and shoes that are elevated, have soles that are 8 inches thick.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BOYLE: You know, because, you know, that's the part I remember. And I had to tap dance in those.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN")
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein, singing) If you're blue and you don't know where to go to, why don't you go where fashion sits?
BOYLE: (As The Monster, singing) Putting on the Ritz.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein, singing) Different types who wear a day coat...
BIANCULLI: Terry Gross spoke with Peter Boyle in 1988. He died in 2006. And now another of that film's scene-stealing supporting players, Cloris Leachman, who had won an Oscar years earlier for her supporting dramatic work on "The Last Picture Show." She played Frau Blucher, a longtime resident of the Transylvania castle. A woman so scary, horses would react in fear whenever they heard her name.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN")
FELDMAN: (As Igor) Steady.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) How do you do? I am Dr. Frankenstein. This is my assistant. Inga, may I present Frau Blucher.
(SOUNDBITE OF HORSES NEIGHING)
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) I wonder what's got into them.
CLORIS LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Your rooms have been prepared, Herr Doctor. If you will follow me.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) Igor, would you bring the bags as soon as you're finished, please?
FELDMAN: (As Igor) Yes, master.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) After you, Frau Blucher.
(SOUNDBITE OF HORSES NEIGHING)
BIANCULLI: Terry Gross spoke with Cloris Leachman in 2009.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: You've made - what? - two or three movies with Mel Brooks. The first was "Young Frankenstein," in which you played Frau Blucher.
LEACHMAN: Blucher (laughter).
GROSS: And I want to play a scene from this. So just to set it up, Gene Wilder plays Dr. Frederick Frankenstein, who is the...
LEACHMAN: Frankenstein.
GROSS: Frankenstein.
LEACHMAN: Frankenstein.
GROSS: Frankenstein.
(LAUGHTER)
LEACHMAN: Igor.
GROSS: And he's the grandson of the famous mad scientist who created the monster. And then...
LEACHMAN: He was my boyfriend.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Then he learns he's inherited the Frankenstein estate, so he goes to the mansion in Transylvania. And your character, Frau Blucher, is one of the servants there. And she was in love with the mad scientist. And in this scene, Gene Wilder, the young Dr. Frankenstein, goes to the lab...
LEACHMAN: Frankenstein.
GROSS: ...(Laughter) With his two assistants, where he finds you releasing the monster from his restraints. Here's the scene.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN")
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) Frau Blucher.
(SOUNDBITE OF HORSES NEIGHING)
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Stop. Don't come closer.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) What are you doing?
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) I'm going to set him free.
GARR: (As Inga) No, no, you mustn't.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) Are you insane? He'll kill you.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) No, he won't. Not this one. He is as gentle as a lamb.
BOYLE: (As The Monster, roaring).
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) Stand back, stand back. For the love of God, he has a rotten brain.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) It's not rotten. It's a good brain.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) It's rotten, I tell you, rotten.
BOYLE: (As The Monster, roaring).
FELDMAN: (As Igor) Ix-nay on the otten-ray.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) I'm not afraid. I know what he likes.
BOYLE: (As The Monster, grunting).
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BOYLE: (As The Monster, whimpering).
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) That music.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes, it's in your blood. It's in the blood of all Frankenstein's. It reaches the soul when words are useless. Your grandfather used to play it to the creature he was making.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) Then it was you all the time.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) You played that music in the middle of the night.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) To get us into the laboratory.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) That was your cigar smoldering in the ashtray.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) And it was you who left my grandfather's book out for me to find.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) So that I would.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes.
WILDER: (As Dr. Frederick Frankenstein) And you and Victor were.
LEACHMAN: (As Frau Blucher) Yes, yes, say it. He was my boyfriend.
GROSS: (Laughter) That's my guest.
LEACHMAN: (Laughter).
GROSS: That's my guest Cloris Leachman with Gene Wilder.
LEACHMAN: Oh, God. Can you believe it's the same one who played on Raymond, "I Love Raymond"?
GROSS: Oh, Peter Boyle, who plays the monster. Yeah.
LEACHMAN: Isn't it remarkable...
GROSS: Yeah.
LEACHMAN: ...To be the same person who's doing those very divergent roles?
GROSS: Oh, yeah. He was a great actor, he was a great actor.
LEACHMAN: He was.
GROSS: Well, how did you figure out how to play Frau Blucher?
LEACHMAN: Blucher.
GROSS: Blucher, Blucher.
LEACHMAN: I didn't know. I had a wonderful hairdo by Mary, the head of the hair department at 20th, and a wonderful costume they made. It fit me perfectly, and it was wonderfully designed. And that's all I knew. And I was made up. Now, I go on this set, and I don't have any idea how to be Frau Blucher or have any German accent. I'd never done one before. So all the time when they were shooting, I kept saying, do you know how? Do you know a German accent? Hello, excuse me, do you know a German accent? To everybody. And about three people there thought they maybe. They didn't know for sure. They tried. And I think one of them was Mel Brooks' mother. I think she helped me the most.
GROSS: Was she from Germany?
LEACHMAN: I don't know anything.
(LAUGHTER)
LEACHMAN: When I first came out the door and I say, I am Frau Blucher. And I think it's said with such measurement. I was so careful (laughter) to try to do it right. That's why it's so slow. Otherwise, I'd say, I am Frau Blucher. But I said, I am Frau Blucher.
GROSS: The running gag in Young Frankenstein is whenever anybody says Frau Blucher, the horses whinny.
LEACHMAN: Mel told me a few years ago that (laughter) Blucher meant glue. I'm not sure that's true but it sure is funny.
GROSS: So it's like they're threatening the horses with the glue factory.
LEACHMAN: Yeah (laughter).
GROSS: So what did you learn about comedy working with Mel Brooks?
LEACHMAN: I'll tell you one thing. I was going up the steps with Gene and the other two (laughter), remember, in the castle I'm going to show them around. And I had a candelabra with the candles not lit. And I turn, I say, stay close to the candles. The staircase can be treacherous. And then Mel came up to me, climbed up the steps and whispered in my ear. And it was a line reading. And here it is. Stay close to the candles. The staircase can be treacherous (laughter), which means we've already lost a couple of people.
BIANCULLI: Cloris Leachman speaking to Terry Gross in 2009. She died in 2021. Coming up, to complete our Halloween day tribute, the director and cowriter of "Young Frankenstein," Mel Brooks. This is FRESH AIR.
This is FRESH AIR. By the time he directed and co-wrote "Young Frankenstein," Mel Brooks already had written for TV's "Your Show Of Shows" and "Caesar's Hour," recorded hit comedy records in which Carl Reiner interviewed him as the 2,000-year-old man, co-created the TV series "Get Smart" and directed such movies as "The Producers," "The Twelve Chairs" and "Blazing Saddles." I spoke with Mel Brooks in 2013 and offered the opinion that you couldn't create a great parody of something unless you both understood and enjoyed the thing you were lampooning.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
MEL BROOKS: I loved Westerns as a little kid, and I loved horror films. And I had fun with them, but I also saluted the glory of the Western and the glory of James Whale's, you know, "Frankenstein" and "Dracula." And we were, you know - what does a little kid in Brooklyn have when it comes to art? It ain't much, but it's those those movies that you got in. And we didn't have any money. I was the baby boy of four - altogether, with four brothers. My mother lost her husband. I lost my - I was only 2, and he died of tuberculosis. And we were really, you know, poor. I mean, dead poor.
And I remember I - my mother gave me three bottles. I wanted desperately to see a Ken Maynard Western. I mean, desperately. And you get two other pictures with it. You get three pictures for a dime. I hadn't - she gave me 9 cents - I mean, she gave me three bottles, which - 3 cents on each deposit bottle at Mr. Shanus' (ph) grocery store. I had 9 cents. I needed another penny. And I said, Mom, I need another penny to get into the movies. I must've been about, you know, 7 or 8. I don't - and she said, I don't have it.
So she went. She knocked on Mrs. Miller's (ph) door, and she said, Mrs. Miller, we don't have any cash in the house. Can I have a penny? And - so I cherish those movies because they really lifted my spirits and are indelibly engraved in my brain as important steps in my world education.
BIANCULLI: And what about, say, Alfred Hitchcock, whom you lampooned in "High Anxiety"? Those would've come a little later for you but you clearly loved those, too.
BROOKS: Much later, but I always thought, you know, that Alfred Hitchcock was the very best director who ever directed films. And when I was doing - I had the idea for "High Anxiety." I wrote him a letter saying, basically, Dear Mr. Hitchcock, you know, I do genre parodies, and I - in my estimation, you are a genre, and that you're just amazing. And I would like to do a movie dedicated to you and based on your style and your work. And he said - he called me, and he said, I loved "Blazing Saddles." I think you're a very talented guy, and I - come to my office. I came to his office at Universal. And he told me to come back every Friday at a quarter to 12 because at 12:30, we would eat. So 45 minutes of work.
And he would work on my script, on "High Anxiety, " with me. And he said, well, don't leave out this and don't leave out that. He said, what are you going to do about the birds? I said, well, gee, I - at the moment, I haven't included it. And he said, well, why don't you have them attack you with their, you know, with their doody? He said, it's going to be funny. I said, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hitchcock, you know?
BIANCULLI: (Laughter).
BROOKS: So he gave me the birds, and he gave me a couple of others. He gave me one joke I couldn't use. He's a very, very interesting writer.
BIANCULLI: What was the joke that you couldn't use?
BROOKS: I - well, I couldn't use it because, I mean, it didn't - it wasn't part of his work. I loved him. He was colorful. He was sweet. And he saw the rough cut of "High Anxiety." And he got up and wiggled by me. Never said a word. I said, oh, my God. It's - ah. Ah, I'm ruined. It's terrible. And he'd left, and 24 hours later a beautiful wooden box arrives placed on my desk. It is six magnums of Chateau Haut-Brion,1961. Priceless - maybe the greatest wine ever made, including Rothschild or any other. And with a little note saying, have no anxiety over "High Anxiety." It's wonderful. Love, Hitch.
BIANCULLI: Now, you seem to have a great track record directing and writing for women. I mean, not only Madeline Kahn, Cloris Leachman, Teri Garr, and getting really wonderful comic performances from these women. What was your method?
BROOKS: Well, you know, it was respecting their ability to deliver comedy as well as, and sometimes a lot better, than male comedians. And they knew that I respected their ability and their talent, and they gave all because of it. And they weren't ashamed or afraid to reveal maybe unconscious aspects of their comedy talent, which may have been a little off-color or a little crazy or a little bizarre that they wouldn't show anybody, but they'd show it to me because they knew I respected their - you know, their - the full range of their gifts.
BIANCULLI: "Young Frankenstein" came out the same year as "Blazing Saddles." The standdown scene has Gene Wilder as the scientist and Peter Boyle as the creature singing "Puttin' On The Ritz." And I know that that was not your idea. That was co-writer Gene Wilder's.
BROOKS: Yes.
BIANCULLI: So how long did it take before you figured out he was right? And then I have a question about what sort of direction you gave to Peter Boyle for that number, especially his singing.
BROOKS: (Laughter) Well, actually, you know, when Gene first brought it up to show the wizardry of this, you know, Dr. Frankenstein, coming up with this incredible creature, I mean, reanimating dead tissue. And not only does it move, does it walk and talk, but it also dazzled you with song and dance, you know? So I said, I think we're tearing it, Gene. I think, you know, we're going too far. We want some of the verisimilitudinous quality that was in the - you know, in the original James Whale movie, you know, which was serious and scary. And I don't want to lose the seriousness and the scariness of it just for silly comedy, you know, just for taking comedy too far.
And he kept pushing. He said, no, no, it will show - demonstrate the doctor's abilities to teach the monster. And finally, he kept bugging me, and I said, look, OK. I'm going to shoot it, and I'm going to put it aside. And we'll see whether or not it's useful in the main body of the picture, OK? He said, OK. That's all I ask. Just shoot it and look at it later when you're putting it together. And I shot it, and I still was afraid of it. And then when I saw it later with all the film that we had collected, I said, gee, it may be the best thing in the film.
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: And I called Gene, and I said, you're absolutely right all the time, and I'm glad we're - it's in, totally. And I'm looking on the cutting room floor for any outtakes, you know?
BIANCULLI: And what direction did you give to Peter Boyle? Like, how he - and was "Puttin' On The Ritz" always the first song choice?
BROOKS: Yes, always. Irving Berlin, and I said, Peter, sing it from your heart. Sing it like it's a cry of love and freedom and everything you can think of that's good. And he did. (Impersonating Frankenstein's Monster, singing) Puttin' on the ritz.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN")
BOYLE: (As the Monster, singing) Puttin' on the ritz.
BIANCULLI: Mel Brooks spoke with me in 2013. Mel Brooks was born in 1926, and he's still got projects in pre-production, including two planned films, "Spaceballs 2" and "Very Young Frankenstein." Happy Halloween, Mel.
Coming up, film critic Justin Chang reviews "Bugonia." This is FRESH AIR. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
