LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For more on this, we turn now to Congressman Jim Himes. He's a Democrat from Connecticut and the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee. Representative Himes, good morning.
JIM HIMES: Good morning.
FADEL: So we just heard there some of the president's mixed messages. He declares Iran's devastated, that a deal is closed, while also deploying thousands more troops to the Gulf. He says he could stop now, or he could carry on. I mean, what does this say about the administration's ability to prosecute and resolve this war?
HIMES: Yeah. Well, you describe it exactly right. What the president has said for the last four weeks has been either contradictory or just nonsensical. I mean, the president saying that he's now dealing with a more moderate group of Iranian leaders - I mean, that's just bananas, right? The new supreme leader is a much more radical, much more extreme individual than his father was. But I think the reason you're seeing this is that it's hard to know why President Trump decided to launch this war, and we still don't know what the strategic objectives are. You know, is it regime change or not? But what we do know is that the - it's dawned on the president that this is a political catastrophe, that gasoline prices are now $1, $1.50 higher than they were four weeks ago. The stock market, which the president is known to watch very carefully, has been in real trouble in the last four weeks.
And the reason for this is that, you know, the war aims, and they're fairly specifically articulated, of the Trump administration - to sink the navy, to break the missile launchers and to set back the nuclear program, whatever that means for a program that was supposedly obliterated nine months ago - is their bid. The Iranian bid is very different. The Iranian bid is fine. You've broken our navy. What we're going to do is strangle the global economy by keeping the Strait of Hormuz closed. And that, of course, raises gas prices. It raises food prices, fertilizer. And it's dawned on President Trump that he is no longer in charge, that he does not have the leverage at this point.
FADEL: So who is on the back foot here? I mean, as you point out, Iran has been very strategic in this asymmetric war and making it clear that they're going to make it hurt economically. So is the U.S. on the back foot, or is Iran on the back foot?
HIMES: Well, clearly - again, which negotiating partner, if there are, in fact, negotiations - again, no evidence of that - would appear to be in the stronger position? The partner that is contradicting itself, that is saying, you know, we're going to be out in no time, but by the way, I'm sending thousands of ground troops? Or is it the partner, the antagonist here, that is saying, fine, we're just going to keep this - the strait closed? And in fact, they are doing it. Just last night, of course, you know, they shot at another Kuwaiti oil tanker. And by the way, they've got cards to play, right? We watched the Houthis, who are associated with Iran...
FADEL: The Yemeni group.
HIMES: ...Launch a missile at Israel, and now they're talking about shutting off maritime traffic in the Red Sea. So who has the leverage right now is not really in dispute, and it is really not a good strategic moment for us.
FADEL: Do members of Congress have any clarity about what the objectives of U.S. ground forces that are being sent over would be?
HIMES: Well, all we can do is sort of listen to the somewhat contradictory messages of the administration. Maybe they seize Kharg Island, right? Kharg Island is an absolutely critical oil export point for the Iranians. And I guess that means that Iranian oil exports would slow down. It does not mean that the Straits of Hormuz are reopened, right? Or maybe it is an attempt to reopen the Straits of Hormuz, which would be an absolutely massive ground operation that would certainly result in casualties. And as you probably know, the polling around the introduction of ground troops into Iran is excruciating for the president. Americans do not support that. And so again, if you look at the big strategic picture here, the leverage, unfortunately, at this point is in the hands of the Iranians.
FADEL: When the U.S. and Israel first attacked Iran, President Trump called on protesters in Iran to rise up, overthrow the government. We heard there his most recent threats is on energy, desalination plants - attacks that would harm Iranian citizens. We've also seen attacks on civilians, most notably an elementary school in Iran and civilian infrastructure in Iran. How should President Trump think of messaging to the Iranian people? But also, how - what do you make of these threats on civilian infrastructure?
HIMES: Well, when I heard the president, as he has done multiple times, call on the Iranians to overthrow their government - look, I think we would all agree in the abstract that that would be a very, very good outcome. We may get lucky, and this regime may yet crack. It may yet fall. The people may take over. There's no evidence that that's where this is drifting, but that would be a terrific outcome. But urging the people to go up against heavily armed fanatics is also a pretty good way to generate a bloodbath.
FADEL: Democratic Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut. Thank you for your time.
HIMES: Thank you.
FADEL: We reached out to Republican lawmakers to join this conversation. Those invitations remain open. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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