LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Are there comparisons to be drawn between the U.S.' war with Iran and its war in Afghanistan? To answer that, I'm joined by John Sopko. He was appointed special inspector general for Afghanistan reconstruction in 2012. He served 12 years in that role under presidents Obama, Trump and Biden. Good morning, John, and welcome to the program.
JOHN SOPKO: Good morning, and it's a pleasure to be here.
FADEL: Is the U.S. at risk of being stuck in another quagmire in Iran, like we saw in Afghanistan, the forever wars this administration said it would never be a part of?
SOPKO: Well, I think, you know, the old statement of it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck. And we're starting to look like a dead duck. We were stuck in Afghanistan - it started with great success. But then later just - we just kept pouring the money in, and we never really got out for 20 years. So I could see this going on a long time. This war, not a war, success, not success. I mean, I don't know how many times we've heard from the president successful, and the next thing we know, we're bombing somebody or being bombed.
FADEL: What are the biggest differences you see between the war in Afghanistan and the war with Iran that began in February? I mean, obviously, Afghanistan was 20 years. We're five months in at this point.
SOPKO: The biggest difference, I think, is we kind of knew in the beginning, and the American people were behind us getting into Afghanistan. And although the purpose of being there changed dramatically over time from, you know, catching the terrorists who were behind 9/11 to then creating a little Norway democracy out of the place. But here, I don't think anybody really knew, and it was never expressed to the American people or Congress as to why we're in and what's the end goal. That's a big difference, I think.
FADEL: You were a special inspector general during the war in Afghanistan, and that's a role of oversight for accountability purposes. Is there the same kind of oversight in the war with Iran that you saw in Afghanistan that you were part of?
SOPKO: Oh, that's the biggest difference. The IG Act of 1978 that created all these special inspectors general were creating people who were independent. They could speak truth to power. Well, Trump fired 16 of us on its first day in office and basically gutted the entire IG community. And if you talk to anybody in the IG community now, they're running scared because their bosses have been fired and other people have been fired or demoted. So you don't have an independent oversight like we did back then.
And the other thing, and it's really important, it is not just that Trump gutted the IG Act, is that the - Congress has disappeared in doing really effective bipartisan - not partisan - oversight. And I don't know where Congress is. I mean, it's been a joke about a do-nothing Congress for years, but it's just amazing that, you know, the Senate appropriators, the House appropriators, particularly the chairmen, I don't think they know what's going on because they're not being told and they're not really asking the right questions, and they're not pushing the administration to answer those questions.
FADEL: And really quickly, what does that mean for the American public if inspectors general have been fired, if there is no oversight from Congress around this war?
SOPKO: What it means is we're - we very well could lose this war because no one's asking the tough questions because no one has the guts to ask the tough questions, whether they're the chairman of the Senate and House Appropriations Committees or the inspectors general of these various agencies.
FADEL: John Sopko served for 12 years as special inspector general for Afghanistan reconstruction. Thank you for your time and your insights.
SOPKO: It was a pleasure.
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