A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
California Congressman Ro Khanna joins us now. He's a Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, which released thousands of documents from the Epstein estate. Congressman, so we just heard about that vote that House Speaker Mike Johnson is going to hold next week on that measure forcing the DOJ to release the Epstein files. Now, that's actually very early, earlier than he's required. Why do you think he's choosing to accelerate that timeline?
RO KHANNA: Well, this is Thomas Massie and my bill. We've been fighting for it for five months. He realizes now when we got to 218 signatures yesterday that 40 to 50 Republicans in his caucus will vote for the release. This will be the largest vote of MAGA base against Donald Trump since Donald Trump walked down the escalator. And I think Johnson is just bowing to reality. He knows that he's going to have to have this vote, so why not get it over with soon?
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah, 'cause he could've waited until December. But that also means that everyone has until December to discuss and kind of go over it.
KHANNA: Exactly. And every day that's passing, there are more Republicans who are joining our effort. Look, this is a case of rich and powerful men who abused young girls. There are over 1,000 victims. This is not really a partisan issue. And the entire Epstein class needs to go in our politics. We need to restore our politics for working people and ordinary people. And I don't care whether there were Republicans or Democrats implicated, that class needs to leave. And the left and right actually is coming together on this.
MARTÍNEZ: I want to talk about, though, the substance of the newly released documents. So Democrats released a few specific emails where Epstein mentioned Trump. And that's out of the 20,000 emails that the committee had in its possession. What do you think those particular emails that your party decided to highlight, what do they say about Trump's relationship with Epstein?
KHANNA: Well, those emails clearly show that he had a significant relationship. The emails suggest that he at the very least knew that Epstein was engaged in illegal conduct. And the question is raised, well, why didn't he say anything? And how much did he know? And the question is also raised, who else knew? I mean, from talking to the victims' lawyers who've seen these files, they believe that there are hundreds of men who either knew about Epstein's abuse and kept quiet or who actually participated in a farm system where Epstein gave them women to abuse.
MARTÍNEZ: So, Congressman, are you saying that there could be criminal guilt by association here?
KHANNA: No, I would not go that far. And this effort has never been actually just about Donald Trump. What I will say is that there have been a lot of people who have acted with moral guilt. There are some people who may have criminal guilt. But the point is these rich and powerful men should not have university buildings named after them. They should not have scholarships named after them. They should not be lionized in society. And so far, they've been shielded. And what Thomas Massie and I are trying to do is expose all of this, have a lead accountability and make it clear that there was a lot of abuse and corruption in our government. And the focus needs to be on these women and survivors.
MARTÍNEZ: Do you think that we will ever kind of get past this? I mean, everyone, I'm talking from Congress to all of us who cover this, is this going to be just something we'll always have in the back of our minds?
KHANNA: I do believe we can get past this. This vote next week is going to be historic. It's the first time that Congress is going to go on record to say the Epstein files should be released. I hope it'll push the Senate to vote, especially if we get big numbers. And then I hope that within the next six months, the files are released.
But the reason this has resonated with the American public is there's a feeling that the American dream is dead. There's a feeling that rich and powerful people have too much money controlling our government, that they get away with things ordinary Americans can't and that they need to be held accountable, if not criminally, at least morally, at least politically. And that we need to restore a sense of standing up for survivors, protecting America's kids and having a politics where billionaires can't just buy off politicians and avoid the rules.
MARTÍNEZ: Quickly, even though if it would pass the Senate, the president would need to sign it into law, which is unlikely. Then what's the point of holding this vote at all? Just a few seconds, Congressman.
KHANNA: First of all, we may get a veto-proof vote in the House. You could get that in the Senate, and it will put such incredible pressure for the MAGA base to be voting against the president. That has never happened in his first term or second term.
MARTÍNEZ: That's Democratic Representative Ro Khanna of California. Thank you very much.
KHANNA: Thank you.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, we've also invited Republican lawmakers to speak with us on this and other news. Those invitations remain open. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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