AILSA CHANG, HOST:
The singer-songwriter Bill Callahan has an unmistakable gravelly baritone, and for decades now, he's used it to sing deeply personal, almost confessional songs.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PATHOL O.G.")
BILL CALLAHAN: (Singing) You know, I've been writing songs and singing them for nigh on 30 years.
CHANG: A lot has changed for Callahan in those 30 years, including becoming a husband and a father.
CALLAHAN: I got married late in my life. I had kids late in my life. So I actually enjoy getting older, and I think my life becomes richer the longer I'm alive.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PATHOL O.G.")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) It's important to not treat your lifeboat like a yacht.
CHANG: Callahan's new album is a reflection on that life, how his two children have come to shape his work and what he will leave behind when he's gone. The album's title, "My Days Of 58" came about from a conversation he had with his 11-year-old son.
CALLAHAN: He said, what's the title? And I said, I don't know. Do you have any ideas? And he said, how old are you? And I said, I'm 58.
CHANG: (Laughter).
CALLAHAN: And he said, how about "My Days Of 58"?
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PATHOL O.G.")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) Is this creativity or pathology? Am I the Pathol O.G.?
CHANG: Around a decade ago, after your son Bass was born, you considered being a full-time dad and dropping music entirely, right? Can you tell me why at that point you seriously questioned whether you could be an artist and a father and a husband all at the same time?
CALLAHAN: I was so derailed, I guess, by suddenly having a person that I had to put first. I mean, I went to a therapist to try to help me to - how do I balance these worlds? And I guess what I realized was all I could do was write about what was happening, even though it's not a very common subject, I think, for a man, especially, to write about his children and his wife and...
CHANG: And his house, balancing work and home.
CALLAHAN: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "EMPATHY")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) With two kids all of my own. I wonder what they'll think of me when they're fully grown.
CHANG: And maybe the fact that you are a father and a husband further inspires your creativity. I mean, what you write about now has changed, right? Like, it's so beautiful. You write about your children on this album in the song "Empathy."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "EMPATHY")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) And I'm always screeching at my boy to do this or that. But when I got back from the road, he hugged me so hard I lost my hat.
CHANG: They've been sort of a muse for your music, haven't they?
CALLAHAN: Yeah. I do think children are sent to us. Like, I think they pick us before they're born to teach us lessons.
CHANG: What are they teaching you right now?
CALLAHAN: You know, like the song says, my son is extremely empathetic, and he definitely didn't get that from me.
CHANG: (Laughter).
CALLAHAN: Because I make fun of people behind their back constantly.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: I think you can still do that and be empathetic (laughter).
CALLAHAN: And then my daughter - me and my daughter are more similar. And I think my wife and my son are more similar. We kind of tend to pair off. And she's more, like, into quiet things like drawing and reading and watching TV.
CHANG: (Laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE MAN I'M SUPPOSED TO BE")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) The kids in the end will be fine playing on the island in my mind. And when the island's gone, they will be finer.
CHANG: Can I ask you, it feels like on this album that mortality, this very limited time we have on Earth, that that has been weighing on you. Like, I hear it especially in the track "The Man I'm Supposed To Be."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE MAN I'M SUPPOSED TO BE")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) I start living my life as if the next day I'll be dead.
CHANG: Do you think starting a family later in life makes you think differently about your own mortality, about the time you have left?
CALLAHAN: It does because, you know, you do the math and you think about when they're 20 and how old I'll be. And there's a certain cutoff point that, no matter how well I take care of myself or how lucky I am, I am going to be leaving and just hoping that I can make it to a certain point where it doesn't affect them too much.
CHANG: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE MAN I'M SUPPOSED TO BE")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) And now my biggest fear is not the dying. My biggest fear is that I'll stop trying.
CHANG: I was reading an interview you did back in 2019, and if it's all right, I'm going to read back your words because I love them. Quote, "If I have a superpower, it is that I am very flexible. I am constantly absorbing new ways of looking at life but still maintaining the seeds of who I am." So let me ask you, Bill. What are some of the new ways of looking at life that you have adopted over the last decade?
CALLAHAN: I'm a big God guy now.
CHANG: You weren't before?
CALLAHAN: And a Jesus guy.
CHANG: Wow.
CALLAHAN: And a Buddha guy. I think they're the same guy, really, but - yeah, I wasn't raised with religion. I was actually raised kind of antireligion. Like, my parents kind of instilled a distrust about that whole aspect of life in me. And I'm glad I discovered it now.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "STEPPING OUT FOR AIR")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) I watched the sky turn from blue to gray. I think I'm going to rain today.
You know, and it probably started with having kids and realizing that, you know, people talk about nature versus nurture...
CHANG: Yeah.
CALLAHAN: ...Which I always thought it was 90% nurture, and that would give me a really good excuse to blame everything on my parents. But then having my own kids, I realize it's kind of the opposite because I think kids are - they're born with these personalities. And the only really explanation I can think of is that they are inhabited by a spirit that has had other lives and will have other lives beyond it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "STEPPING OUT FOR AIR")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) Looked beautiful yesterday.
CHANG: I wish you, Bill, and your children and your wife and myself many, many more lives to come.
CALLAHAN: Me too.
CHANG: Bill Callahan. His new album is called "My Days Of 58." Thank you so much, Bill, for spending this time with me. I so enjoyed it.
CALLAHAN: Me too. Thanks for having me.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "STEPPING OUT FOR AIR")
CALLAHAN: (Singing) In the gray. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
