STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
People around the world who are watching this summit include Keyu Jin. She is a Chinese economist and author of a book that was designed to explain China's modern economy. She's now based in London and joins us from there. Welcome back to the program.
KEYU JIN: Great to be with you, Steve.
INSKEEP: Tamara there spoke of stabilizing a truce on trade. Is this truce close enough that the two countries can just do business for a while?
JIN: Yeah, it's to give some breathing room. It's tactical stabilization. The tone has shifted - manage the competition, improve the communication. And China's really leaning into Trump's transactional approach. So as we heard, buy more airplanes, soybeans, energy, you know, discussions around investment access for American banks and so forth.
INSKEEP: You said Trump's transactional approach. What is President Xi's approach? What word would describe that?
JIN: Pragmatism in all dimensions. Well, I think what China really wants and to be understood is, really, respect, reciprocity and realism. Not mixing politics with trade and hopefully resuming, you know, a more normal trade and investment relationship, while being quite aware that technologically, it's probably going to go in separate ways and parallel systems.
INSKEEP: Keyu, we've been traveling around a little bit the last few days and trying to get a sense of the economy. And we do get a sense of continued economic growth, of exports continuing to increase for China. Also, ordinary people struggling a little bit, mortgages and rents remaining rather high. How would you assess China's economy right now?
JIN: It is a paradox because there is a bifurcation between continued softness of the economy, very weak expectations, but coupled with extraordinary technological boom from pharma to quantum, to AI, to EVs to robotics, and you name it. And the problem is that tech is going really well, but it just can't displace real estate as the main driver of growth and employment in China. That's why we're seeing both things happening at the same time.
INSKEEP: Oh, because real estate is not doing so well, even if tech is doing really well?
JIN: Tech is a very small part of the economy, even if it's nationalistically, strategically super important.
INSKEEP: I'm curious if China is beginning to have the same debate that we have in the United States. The question about whether tech is going to replace my job, whether AI is going to replace human beings and make human beings less necessary. Are people anxious about that in China?
JIN: You know what? It's actually quite the opposite. We hear very seldom negative sentiment towards AI and new technology. And it's all about excitement and enthusiasm and what could be done next and how is the society going to adapt, what new jobs are going to be created. It's actually quite the opposite. You don't hear about concerns about humanity and job losses.
INSKEEP: Let's talk about how the rest of the world views China's tech sector. There was major news in recent days because Meta acquired an AI firm in China and then was told by the Chinese government, nope, not going to do that. We're breaking up that merger. How much enthusiasm is there in the rest of the world for the Chinese tech sector? And what does it mean that the government doesn't seem that excited about it?
JIN: Well, you know, this is really interesting because I actually think of China-U.S. technology as highly different, different approach. China is more diffusive about scale, about deployment, about adaptability, about low cost. And it's actually very useful for a lot of developing countries, even if politically, strategically, it is difficult to take that in, in Europe or in the United States. So while the Chinese companies understand that going to the U.S. is difficult, they are really, very much ready to go overseas, everywhere from the Middle East to Africa.
INSKEEP: The United States, of course, regards China as a rival and in some ways as a threat. Of course, that's going to continue. But on an economic level, what opportunities do you see for Americans in the coming years in your country?
JIN: The very fact that the delegation consists of the top American businessmen going, traveling to China just signifies that the Chinese market is still very much important for top American enterprises. If you just take finance, the lack of expertise and financial management and wealth and so forth really invites American companies, American banks, American insurance companies. And, of course, you know, we have the Starbucks and the Nikes. China is the second largest economy. It will be still very important for America.
INSKEEP: And remains and is getting to be a bigger consumer market, despite all the barriers?
JIN: Absolutely. We can see it in the Chinese demand, Chinese consumption upgrading.
INSKEEP: Keyu Jin, it's a pleasure talking with you again. Thanks so much.
JIN: Thanks, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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