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There's the Make America Healthy Again movement embodied for many by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and there are leaders in public health who strongly critique that movement. It's not easy to get these camps to talk to each other, but a podcast called "Why Should I Trust You?" is trying. NPR's Pien Huang has more.
PIEN HUANG, BYLINE: To kick off these conversations, host Brinda Adhikari asks each person to introduce themselves. She told me here's where she's coming from.
BRINDA ADHIKARI: I think I've grown up mostly trusting institutions. I vaccinate my children. For all intents and purposes, if somebody wanted to put me in one camp or the other, they'd be like, oh, yeah, you're sort of leaning more towards public health.
HUANG: She's a former television producer who used to run the Apple TV show "The Problem With Jon Stewart." But holding these conversations with MAHA leaders has helped her realize things about herself.
ADHIKARI: I also harbor lots of feelings of mistrust. There are certain places where I do see eye to eye, very much so with the people in MAHA.
HUANG: Her podcast called "Why Should I Trust You?" launched a year ago. It's become known for putting traditional health leaders in the same virtual room with Kennedy's supporters to air their different views.
ADHIKARI: There's a lot of folks in public health who really believe strongly that this administration is harmful to public health.
HUANG: Kennedy has made deep cuts to the federal health workforce and budget and moved to reduce the number of vaccines children get, raising deep concerns among public health advocates.
ADHIKARI: And on the MAHA side, they deeply trust Robert F. Kennedy Jr. They love him, you know? The people I speak with. Like, there's a love there.
HUANG: A recent podcast episode on faith and science featured Elizabeth Frost, a MAHA organizer in Ohio. A few years ago, she heard Kennedy speak and felt a deep agreement.
ELIZABETH FROST: I prayed to God. I said, is this legit? You know, is he a good man?
HUANG: And then...
FROST: Profoundly, like, nothing I've ever heard before, something came over me and said, you need to do everything that you can to get that man elected. That's a divine order.
HUANG: Frost became the director of Kennedy's presidential campaign in Ohio. In the episode, she was joined by Reverend Wendy Silvers, who also worked on his campaign.
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WENDY SILVERS: You know, making it OK for pregnant women to receive the COVID vaccine. When I was pregnant with my child, I was told not to eat fish. I was told not to have mercury. I was told not to put anything into my body. But then all of a sudden, we've progressed to such a point where, if there's a problem, go get a vaccine.
HUANG: Silvers went on to claim that COVID vaccines led many people to have horrific reactions. Adhikari stepped in during the podcast.
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ADHIKARI: There always reaches a point at which somebody says a lot of data, that somebody else is just, like, that's not true. And those never really go anywhere, OK?
HUANG: She gave Dr. Francis Collins, former director of the National Institutes of Health, a quick rebuttal.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "WHY SHOULD I TRUST YOU?")
FRANCIS COLLINS: I do think, Reverend Wendy, that a fully objective review of all of the data without cherry picking would reveal that some of the things that you have put forward are not based upon the evidence.
HUANG: And then, as Adhikari urged, they moved on. At the end, Collins said it was a difficult conversation.
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COLLINS: It does feel like it's a demonstration of how far we are apart from each other.
HUANG: Later, Adhikari told me the sessions can go on for hours. They are messy. They don't resolve.
ADHIKARI: You may leave being, like, this group thinks that vaccines are terrible. This group thinks that vaccines are the underpinning of public health, and never the twain shall meet. But I am not of the camp that we can only engage if the goal is to persuade.
HUANG: She's learned deeply held beliefs do not budge without time, trust and shared values. But many of her guests say they feel heard and have more empathy for the humans on the other side.
Pien Huang, NPR News. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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