MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
President Trump's critics say the American strike on a facility in Venezuela is drawing the U.S. even closer into a more dangerous conflict.
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Trump gave a few new details this week of the attack against a dock in Venezuela, where drugs are allegedly being loaded on boats.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: There was a major explosion in the dock area where they load the boats up with drugs. They load the boats up with drugs, so we hit all the boats, and now we hit the area. It's a implementation area. That's where they implement.
MARTÍNEZ: In a few moments, we'll speak with former CIA and FBI official Phil Mudd about this first known operation inside Venezuela. First, though, let's get the facts on this escalating campaign against the government of Nicolas Maduro.
MARTIN: NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez is with us now from Palm Beach, where President Trump is spending the winter holidays. Good morning, Franco.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Good morning, Michel.
MARTIN: So just give us the big picture here. What is the significance of these latest attacks?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, the president has been warning for weeks that he was prepared to launch land strikes, and he first mentioned this port strike a week ago on a radio show. While he hasn't been clear about how the strikes were conducted, a U.S. official confirmed to NPR's Tom Bowman that the CIA struck the dock. Now, until now, the U.S. has focused on strikes on boats it claims are trafficking drugs and some oil tankers. But both of those operations have been taking place in international waters. So this is a really big deal to strike on land. It's an escalation, but also creates more risks of killing innocent Venezuelans who have nothing to do with any of that stuff.
MARTIN: Also, the lack of congressional input, let alone oversight, as this campaign has escalated is something that has drawn attention, especially some members of Congress, as one might imagine. Wouldn't it be considered sort of customary and appropriate to at least brief Congress ahead of a strike like this?
ORDOÑEZ: Right. I mean, typically, when presidents have done this in the past, the so-called Gang of Eight would be briefed either before or very soon after. Those are the top senators and House leaders for both parties. You know, it's just another example, though, of how Trump has sought to build his own power while diminishing Congress' power. I was speaking with John Feeley, who formerly served as ambassador of Panama, and he says Congress seems to be very slowly inching towards more oversight.
JOHN FEELEY: One of the things that really surprises me is how the Congress has sort of had two attempts to get a War Powers Resolution. They've narrowly failed, but they keep coming back to it. And it's almost sort of like a chicken and an egg.
ORDOÑEZ: Now he sees growing frustration among members of Congress, and he points to the congressional hearings about the recent double-tap boat strikes in international waters off the coast of Venezuela that killed survivors of one initial strike.
MARTIN: You know, one of the things that stands out for me is that if the president did not mention the strike last week, we might not have heard of this. And the reason I point that out is that it's so much different than these public displays of the boat strikes where the administration issued, you know, video - not as much as some members of Congress and, certainly, members of the public want, but they did make a point of issuing video about it. So what do you make of that?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, I mean, the MO really has been to seek as much credit on the strikes. Ambassador Feeley also told me that Trump is trying to send a message to Maduro that the U.S. can get to him anywhere and anytime.
FEELEY: They want to get as much public credit for them. They want to build momentum to provoke regime collapse. They want Nicolas Maduro to sleep poorly at night.
MARTIN: So what are you watching for next, Franco?
ORDOÑEZ: You know, that's hard to say. Trump said he spoke to Maduro fairly recently, but that he didn't seem to think it had much of an impact. You know, surely, I'll be watching for further escalation, perhaps another land strike. But also, Congress is coming back soon, so we'll see if they have any questions or concerns about these latest moves and the latest escalation.
MARTIN: That is NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez. Franco, thank you.
ORDOÑEZ: Thank you, Michel. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
