Play Live Radio
Next Up:
0:00
0:00
0:00 0:00
Available On Air Stations

Q&A: Lesa Johnson, Chico State Assistant Professor and Sociology Ph.D, Speaks On Significance Of Derek Chauvin Verdict

TOPSHOT - Members of George Floyd's family and Rev. Al Sharpton(R), the founder and President of National Action Network arrive at the Courthouse In Minneapolis, Minnesota on April 19, 2021. - A jury is to hear closing arguments on April 19, 2021 in the trial of the white ex-police officer accused of murdering African-American George Floyd, a case that laid bare racial wounds in the United States and has come to be seen as a pivotal test of police accountability. Derek Chauvin, a 19-year veteran of the Minneapolis Police Department, faces a maximum of 40 years in prison if convicted of the most serious charge -- second-degree murder. (Photo by Kerem Yucel / AFP) (Photo by KEREM YUCEL/AFP via Getty Images)
KEREM YUCEL/AFP via Getty Images
/
AFP
Members of George Floyd's family and Rev. Al Sharpton(R), the founder and President of National Action Network arrive at the Courthouse In Minneapolis, Minnesota on April 19, 2021.

Former Minnesota police officer Derek Chauvin was convicted on all counts in the death of George Floyd Tuesday. People across the country and in the North State watched the trial closely, including Chico State Assistant Professor Lesa Johnson. Johnson holds her doctorate in sociology and specializes in social psychology, race and ethnicity, and social inequality.

NSPR’s Adia White spoke with Johnson on Tuesday. Here are some highlights from their conversation.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

On whether this verdict will set a precedent for law enforcement accountability moving forward

I don't know. I would love to be hopeful, but given the nature of this country and the history of this country, sometimes hope is too much to ask for. I would love to believe it, but I almost feel as if I start believing it then the momentum will be lost to keep pressing for justice in so many other cases. I know that we have a history of assuming that one case, or one piece of legislation even, will solve racial inequities. And so often, that has not been the case and things have been rolled back so I am very cautious. But I have a brief sigh of relief right now, very brief. And I hope that his family has some sigh of relief. This doesn't bring back George Floyd, doesn't bring back any of the people that have died at the hands of police. But hopefully, it gives them just a little bit of a sigh of relief.

On the significance the verdict could have on smaller communities in Northern California, like Chico, that don’t receive national attention.

I don't know if it's a much different story. Chico is a college town too, so there's a little bit more of a mixture of liberal sentiment in certain pockets in Chico. But it's still, for the most part, a very conservative town. Inside the city is where the university is (and) some of those liberal leanings are. But as you branch out of the main downtown area, then you have the large landholders, you have the farmers, you have conservative business owners. It's just a pretty conservative town. And from what I understand, many of our towns in Northern California are conservative that way and really love police, continue to invest (in police).

There's a local family the family of Desmond Phillips that I've worked with since late 2017. And even taking that case to court has been a nightmare. We could take it all the way to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and all of the precedents that the judge relied on to make decisions in this case were, I don't know how to say it another way, but those precedents were racist. They were heavily leaning toward a conservative stint, and not in the interests of victims of state-sanctioned violence.

When you have small towns or conservative towns, like Chico, and many of those in Northern California, it's just a very different type of breed. In major cities, we sometimes will have protests or sometimes we'll have a public outcry. But that doesn't exist (here) in the very large way that it exists in larger cities. We have to go to Sacramento to get support, to help build support for our local issues if we want anything to help us with state-sanctioned violence. So this is really hard.

On the importance of community demonstrations and their impact on Chico

When Desmond Phillips was killed, we had so much support from the community. The community had basically an outcry. Inside of the city there are a large number of liberal people or even people who understood what happened and knew that this didn't sound right. But that type of support wanes, people get tired. The process is extremely long. It's been four years since Desmond was killed and the sense that we get is that people want to move on with their lives. Desmond's father is still going through his phases of grief and then at some point realizes that people are going to be people and the support won't be there in a lot of instances. But it is really a shame that the support isn't there. That people just move on.

In this image from video, defense attorney Eric Nelson, left, and defendant, former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin listen to Hennepin County Judge Peter Cahill read instructions to the jury before closing arguments, Monday, April 19, 2021, in the trial of Chauvin at the Hennepin County Courthouse in Minneapolis. Chauvin is charged in the May 25, 2020 death of George Floyd. (Court TV via AP, Pool)
AP
/
Pool Court TV
In this image from video, defense attorney Eric Nelson, left, and defendant, former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin listen to Hennepin County Judge Peter Cahill read instructions to the jury before closing arguments, Monday, April 19, 2021, in the trial of Chauvin at the Hennepin County Courthouse in Minneapolis. Chauvin is charged in the May 25, 2020 death of George Floyd. (Court TV via AP, Pool)

On which moment in the trial she will remember most

The opening remarks. We walked into this thinking about eight minutes and 47 seconds and then started out with nine minutes and 29 seconds. The agony was prolonged. Just the idea that someone could have such power and such control over another person's life and then be able to utilize so many lawyers. Derek Chauvin's police union garnered so many lawyers, so much money to afford him so much representation in this trial. And he had lawyers who were calling out all kinds of excuses as to why Derek Chauvin could not possibly have been the reason that this man died in the first place.

That was one of the things that made my heart drop about the criminal justice system. The fact that it's on the screen and everybody can see it, but the criminal justice system continued to try to gaslight an entire public, not just the jury but the entire public into thinking that there were so many other reasons and that George Floyd was such a criminal, that George Floyd did something to himself, or the exhaust pipe did something, or his former life, or his drug use, or any of those things would have been the cause of his death. While we have been sitting here watching that man kneel on him and choke him out of life for over nine minutes. That is flabbergasting. That was just a huge part of the trial that made me lose faith so often.

There are so many loopholes in our law that allow police to get away with things. And for many people, I hate this because I know that many of your listeners are thinking, ‘Oh, my gosh, you know, what a frame of mind to think that police get away with things rather than protecting and serving.’ But that is the way that many people of color experience the police. As if they are above the law because they enforce the law. And so even in their enforcement of the law, they have so many loopholes and then so much protection. If in fact something ever does go to trial (there’s) so much protection, so much money, so many lawyers that just build such a powerful case. What is a poor family to do when they're up against something like that? It's flabbergasting to me. That's one of the things that just really struck me about this whole trial, probably the fact that the whole trial was even necessary. That's what struck me.

Adia White is a broadcast journalist and producer with nearly 10 years of experience. Her work has appeared on WNYC, This American Life, Capital Public Radio and other local and national programs. She started at North State Public Radio as a freelance reporter in 2017 before leaving for a stint at Northern California Public Media in Santa Rosa.